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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:40 am 
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Location: Elmira Ontario
crwcab1978 wrote:
68Mercury250Ranger wrote:
crwcab1978 wrote:
I did a convertion of my first crewcab that I built. I started with a 1974 f250 2wd longbed. I mounted a duivorced NP 205 transfercase in the exact middle. By doing this my front and rear drive shaft was interchangeable and I carried one spare at all times. Then I mounted a 78/79 high pinion 60 in the front. I built my own front crossmember with the correct spring mount width. Then I just cot a hole in the frame just like original for the shackle mounts on the rear. It was actually fairly easy. I wish I never would have sold it. My new project is a 1977 F350 4x4 shortbed. It has a front axle like I have never seen before.



Dana 60 low pinion(regular) with disc brakes and open knuckle?
one application only if it is......ok 76 and 77 crewcab f250 4x4s. that is a rare beast 8-)


So what would this axle be worth? Anyone have interest in it?


A lot if someone was doing a concours(spell check) restoration ;)
Rare doesn't always mean valuable unfortunately.
personally I would upgrade to a newer reverse cut one. 8-)

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summer:68 Merc, 72 Bronc. 93 Aerostar(wife's), 70 Ford CC cummins 5spd 4wd.(WIP)
winter: 92 2wd Explorer(wife's) 1985 MB 300 D (mine) :)
projects: 77 Ford CC 4x4 5.9/7.3PSD?, 67 Merc M700 on 98 F800 chassis{engine?}
86 Lada Niva VW diesel etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Location: Great Falls MT
Low pinion front 60s aren't worth much they have weaker shafts goofy hubs and spindles basicly a bloated dana 44 is what you have

take a tape measure with you and measure that red trucks box I can tell the length of the box just by the pictures the topper only confirms it

the topper throws alot of peoples perspective off make the box look shorter
happens alot don't feel bad about it

Bob your truck was a on purpose truck in cab tank goes with divorced Tcase and lowpinion trucks all part of the package for it

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Trent
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79 Ford CrewCab 4X4(My Dually Project)
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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:38 pm 
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It is worth something to someone who wants to mess with it. We have changed two of them over to 35 spline units. All you have to do is have a custom set of inners made...bout 300 bucks, and have the knuckles machined out to take the larger spindle from the 77-79 front. You can reuse the gears and case, you just have to change the side gears....which those from a rear axle will work. The only really good thing about it is that being standard rotation, the gearset is stronger than a conventional reverse cut....but...I have never stripped the teeth off a rev. cut set of gears.

The two that we have done were sold as soon as they were finished...one went to a truck puller who was using a highboy truck and didnt want the higher pinion angle associated with a later model 60, and the other went to a chevy guy lol....who wanted to straight axle his new truck but not put as much lift on it. I think they brought around 1400 each if I remember correctly.

Ya just have to figure out if it is worth you messing with it or not, and will it fit your application to do so :) Hope this helped!

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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Low pinion means standard rotation = Not so good for the front. Reverse cut diffs were introduced for front end apps. because in a front application a standard cut gear uses the weak side of the pinion gear tooth to drive the ring gear. Reverse cut and standard cut cannot be swapped in diff cases, if by some miracle you could accomplish this you would be plagued by a front and rear axle wanting to do the opposite things, i.e. one going forward while the other going backward.
Anyway that axle is worth something to a factory original resto whereas for strength and functionality there is a much superior axle out there.

Here is a clip from 4x4help:


Basic Axle Information:


* Semi-Floaters
* Full-Floaters
* Integral Carrier Design
* Removable Carrier Design
* Reverse-Cut vs. Standard-Cut



Semi-Floaters:

Most 1/2 ton and lighter vehicles are equipped with a "semi-floating" rearend. In a semi-floating design, the wheel bolts directly to a flange formed at the end of the axle shaft. A single bearing supports the outer end of the shaft, which is located just inside the housing end. Therefore, the axle shaft has both forces acting; one has to support the weight of the vehicle, two it has to turn the wheels to propel the vehicle. Semi-floating rearends are usually less expensive to purchase or build and lighter than full-floaters, but can be as strong or stronger if you choose the right rearend and have it built correctly.

Full-Floaters:

In applications like heavy duty 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, semi-floaters are much less desirable because the heavier weight of the vehicle combined with the twisting forces can cause semi-floater shaft to bend or break. Obviously, having your rear wheel pass you on the road can be somewhat unsettling. To prevent this from happening, full-floaters use an axle housing with a spindle formed at the end of the axle tube. The wheel is bolted to a separate hub, which spins on two opposed, tapered roller bearings. Since the weight of the vehicle is supported by the spindle on the housing and not the axle shaft, the shaft is only subjected to twisting forces form the engine.



Full Floater Diagram


(Click To Enlarge)

Integral Carrier Design:

Common examples of integral carrier housings are: almost all Dana axles, GM corporate axles and some ford axles, like the 8.8 or 10.25" full floaters found in F-Trucks. This style of housing is easily recognized by a center casting with tubing pressed in from either side. The tubes are pressed very tightly into the casting, and are plug welded so they will not twist or pull out. There are bearings in the end of the housing to support the wheels, and this type of housing is commonly used for both full-floating or semi-floating axles. This design can also be recognized by the removable cover used for gear inspection and installation.

Removable Carrier Design:

The Ford 9-inch and Toyota rearends are good examples of the removable carrier design. These rearends use a housing made from several pieces of stamped steel that have been welded together as a single unit. The gears are contained in a bolt in center casting commonly referred to as a "third member." The third member is inserted into the housing from the driveshaft side of the rearend, and is held by a circle of bolts. Drag racers enjoy this style of rearend because they can set up different gear ratios in multiple third members and quickly change ratios between rounds. This type of rearend usually has no removable cover; in order to inspect the gears, you have to completely remove the axle shafts and drop the third member from the main housing.

Reverse-Cut vs. Standard-Cut:

Often mistakenly referred to as "reverse rotation," the term "reverse-cut" is perhaps the single most misunterstood term by four wheelers and even many in the axle business. Areverse cut housing is not just like a standard cut housing turned upside down. It is a specially designed housing for fount driving axles. Contrary to popular belief, it does not turn backwards or in reverse. The term "reverse-cut" actually refers to the direcrtion of the spiral cut in the ring gear.

In a reverse cut axle, the spiral on the ring gear is opposite form a standard -cut ring gear. The idea behind reverse cut is to strengthen the operation of the gear when it is used for a front axle application.


In the early day of four wheel drive, the front axle used the same gears and housing as an ordinary rearend. This was done for economic reasons, since the components were already in mass production. They simply added the necessary parts to enable steering. However, all ring and pinion gears are cut in such a way that they are inherently stronger when pushing the cehicle in the forward direction and weaker when driving in reverse. That means that a standard cut (rearend style) gear, when used in the front, must push on the weaker side of the gear to move the vehicle in a forward direction.

This practive continued until the late 1970s, when Dana designed a new axle that would be stronger for front axle use and also provide better driveline angles for the shorter fornt driveshafts then being used in new trucks. The reverse cut housing and reverse cut gear set can be identified by the pinion gear, which is located abve the centerline of the axle shaft. Therefore, standard cut gears are always strongest when used in rear axles and reverse cut gears are stonger when used in front axles.

Reverse cut axles have also become popular for lifted short wheelbase vehicles like Jeeps, early Broncos and Land Cruisers. The reason is because the higher pinion location greatly reduces rear driveshaft angles. However, not all reverse cut axles are strong enough for use as a rearend. The cut of the gear that makes them stronger for the front axle use also makes them somewhat weaker for the rear axle use. The best and most popular reverse cut axle for rearend use is the Dana 60, a good choice because of its larg ring gear diameter, tooth strength, ability to accept 35 spline axle shafts and wide selection of ratios and differentials.

Two other reverse cut axle are the Dana 44 and a new Ford 8.8" reverse cut. The Dana 44 makes an excellent front axle, but just isn't strong enough for rear axle use. The Ford 8.8", reverse cut rearend (new from Currie Enterprises) has a slightly larger ring gear than the 8.5" of the Dana 44 but is not nearly as strong as the Dana 60, which has a 9.75" ring gear. The new 8.8" uses a special third member that bolts into a removable carrier Ford 9 inch housing and its somethimes mistakenly referred to as a reverse cut Ford 9 inch. Both the Dana 44 and the ford 8.8" can accept a maximum of a 30 to 31 spline axle shaft.

The bottom line is that reverse cut gears (front axle style) and axle assemblies are inherently stonger for front axle use because of the way the gears mesh when moving the vehicle forward direction. They also provide better driveline angles because the pinion is located above the centerline of the axle. The gear set used in each type of axle are not interchangeable. Standard cut gears cannot be used in place of reverse cut and vice versa. The housings are also not interchangeable. However, differental cases, be open, limited slip or locker are compatible with both styles, as long as the spline count matches the axle shaft.

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78 Crewcab SB 4x4
95 F150 sc sb xlt 4x4
92 Jeep yj - Ford F.I. 5.0 / 4aod / np 208
45 Ford Gpw - 134 flathead / t-84 / d-18 twinstick
Previous toys:
76 F150 Ranger xlt SB
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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:59 pm 
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The worst thing about reverse cut gears is that there is nothing lower than 5:38's :(

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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Location: Moose Jaw SK Canada
I have seen several SB factory toppers in these parts...including one that was trashed due to dude thinking there was no value in an old cap. There is currently a F100 short box with bad black ( spray bomb) paint and brushed stripes and a factory top that I'm waiting to pounce on when it hits the wrecker, until then I have posted some wanted ads in local web sites. You always see them until you reallllly want to buy one it seems.
Rick

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Rick


1975 F600 Tow Truck
1978 F250 Crew Cab Ranger XLT SB 460 C6
1978 Bronco Ranger XLT EFI460 C6 4X4
1978 Bronco Custom 400 C6 4X4
1986 Bronco II 4X4

and a bunch of others


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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:25 am 
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take a good picture of that topper i've never seen one.

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78 350 crew 400 c-6 d70 dually 2wd
mint 75 supercab longbox 460
26)73-79 standard cab work trucks, daily drivers, parts trucks
and one giant 4 wheel drive f-600


2002 Superduty crew shortbed 7.3 --truck pullin toy


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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Location: Central point OR.
Wouldn't a standard (low pinion) front axle be better in most applications? My thinking is, if the truck is traveling foreward there is not alot of traction (like backing up in two wheel drive) no need for major strength. If the truck is backing up in four wheel drive however, there is a huge amount of traction, and a greater need for strength. It seems to me low pinion is stronger, and now I can remachine and replace axle shafts to 35 spline if mine break(Thanks for the info, reganswan). Might even be some swap parts to make bearing and hub parts interchangeable.

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76 CC F-250 4X4, custom, cummins/nv4500. Driving it now, constantly under construction.



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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:40 am 
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Location: Great Falls MT
unless you back up to most of your destinations the low pinion wouldn't not have as many advantages as the high pinion

most driving is going forward and since the low is powered on the coast side of the teeth it is only 80% of its strength which is still very strong from Dana

most important is driveline angles which is reduced with a High pinion Diff

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Trent
NORTH COUNTRY SPECIALTIES
Picador (1979 4door Bronco)
79 Ford CrewCab 4X4(My Dually Project)
79 Ford Bronco and My Boat





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 Post subject: Re: Converting a CrewCab 2wd to 4wd
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Trent is there anyway you can get me some measurements as to where you cut these frames?

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